walk up to split neck orbiting the world
with me Joseph Heights standing in for
George Galloway and meager three feel
here political and media plates shifted
again this week as another act of
terrorism mass murder exploded in Europe
more than 30 people were murdered and
hundreds were maimed Isis claimed
responsibility and primary
responsibility is of course there's but
who and what else is responsible for the
apparently unstoppable rise of this
fanatic extremism and what should be
done about it Russia tried to destroy
the base of this extremism in Syria and
was then met with implacable threats
insults and sabotage from the very same
leaders who had earlier told us that
Isis was an extensive threat to the
world and the so-called moderate rebels
continue to benefit from the military
and financial support of the west and
its allies though no one can define
their moderation and almost all the
weapons end up in the hands of Isis and
al-qaeda to help us make sense of where
we're at is Charles Shoebridge security
expert and former intelligence officer
we will hear from him in a minute but
first I took the split in the camera
onto the streets of London and heard the
voice of the people have a look at this
I think that there is a little bit of
responsibility as far as the West
Madeleine goes the only issue is that i
feel like if the west doesn't do
anything there's gonna be a continuance
of stuff anyway i think they know what
they need to do you know they need to
stop interfere in people's business but
i don't think that's gonna happen our
intervention and specialty in Iraq
that's caused all this without any doubt
whatsoever we should have we should have
never gone there in the first place and
obviously not solving the Palestinian
problem in the first place going back
even longer period of time so that was
the voice of the people the Nats time to
hear of course from our expert Charles
Charles we've heard so many stories over
the news of the course of this week 70
hours upon hours of broadcast time on
this issue but there never seems to be
any real analysis how can we really
gauge the real scale of this terrible
extremism fret the problem is that
there's only if you like vested
interests involved in the whole terror
story it's absolutely clear and this
Belgium attack proves of course if such
proof was needed after Paris after seven
seven and so many that
attacks that there is a real and genuine
terrorist threat but it's an interest of
far too many people to overstate that
threat whether it's as a means of
getting more powers for the security
services and indeed for governments
around the world and particularly in
Western Europe and the United States
whether it's a means of furthering the
apparent need for more security
equipment from security companies more
armed guards more should we say more
scanners and stuff like this and also of
course as a means of distraction from
perhaps foreign policy failures or in
domestic failures at home so where's the
victims on the street of course suffered
terribly from these acts of terrorism
and the public more widely suffers I
think from the fear of totem this seems
to be in very few of the vested
interests in the West in the states in
European on here on the streets of
London to actually play down this threat
what we should be doing of course he's
saying that these things are going to
happen intelligence failures and of
course this is another intelligence
failure will occur even if there was the
best will of the security services to
prevent these acts but that if we
compare our current situation even with
this horrific level of attacks with
perhaps what our fathers our
grandfathers and our other previous
generations had to go through in terms
of existential threats we need to keep
this in perspective and actually really
get on with our lives until I extent
those in authority who actually saying
that we shouldn't exaggerate this but we
should just get on with our lives
actually I think are accurate well the
word failure you mentioned resonates to
degree because let's not forget the
Belgium was on a practically a state of
emergency when it's occurred admire you
know MIT early there was a quick
response to the actual tragedy that
happened but why were they ready for
this you're absolutely right and the
fact remains as some Jean I've said for
many many years in regard to this issue
it's actually common sense to set but
nonetheless it's worth saying that if
you're intelligent systems fail to the
extent that the Bombers or the shooters
on a terrace are going to get through to
their target particularly that's a soft
target like an airport on the land side
of the departure not on our side for
example these didn't penetrate through
to the outside so I whether it's
security or a bus station or a metro
station or a cinema or theatre or
console or something like that if the
intelligence system fails to the extent
Obama's going to get through there's
very very little you could do in terms
of physical security to protect and
that attack hat from happening for
example a lot of people are saying now
we spoke about vested interest to some
degree and a lot of people now are
pushing for the idea that there should
be extended security around airports
such that all of the airport for example
the departures area before you actually
go through to the security road is
currently in other words that the
circular security people should be
widened which will cost more more
scanning even if iSTA's and so on but
all you will do is simply displace the
threat slightly further out and so then
choose of people waiting to go in will
be hit and so really you cannot if your
intelligence system fails and if you
fail to prevent the causes of terrorism
as well which is another subject that
needs to be covered of course then it's
very difficult to physically prevent
these no matter how many emotionally
even the non liquid policy following the
911 attacks has had such an impact on
the whole airport regulations the queues
are incredible and after today at what I
still have been able to properly manage
it well the liquid Tish is a very good
point because there's a lot of dispute
amongst experts Mel you know myself
included as to the validity or their
value of this policy in here because
actually if you think of the threat to
Britain most of the threats of Britain
is going to be from incoming flights
people we haven't be able to manage
getting on board but I personally I've
flown from let's say five different
countries in the last 12 months into
this country only on one of those
flights were liquids taken off me
because every time and I've forgotten to
take out the water in my bag because
there's a nice to have water flow only
on one occasion that was coming from
Paris did which was via different view
but on all the other routes I've been on
and I've not had water taken from me
okay and and so you wonder what is the
importance of this and also you realize
that of course there are so many things
once you get to airside that you combine
the shops now which you could use to
target a plane so you do wonder what the
motivation is behind us whether it was
introduced as a panic measure or maybe
there were good reasons initially and
those reasons of disappeared for example
you can have explosives and liquids this
is the issue here but guess what you can
have explosives in solids they found
most explosives are so realistic but
there's no bad on solids also doesn't
make sense because if just if only
Europe applies this policy with the rest
of the
not it doesn't hold and so but of course
there is a big business interest which
some cynics might say is involved here
in providing security searches scanning
machines and also charging three times
what you charged for water etc on air
side as you would land side but yes it's
a it's a it's one of those factors where
the security industry has mushroomed out
of all proportion and as we've mentioned
does very little to actually prevent
threats rather than simply displaces I
just upon the analogous because early is
that intelligence field so which is
therefore agree or are you still a bit
skeptical about arrogance claim
arrogance claim that actually one of the
suicide bombers was in Turkey and he
deported them back to Europe the
Netherlands and then back to Belgium I
think is true Turkey has taken because
it's been forced to take this action by
some of its NATO allies and some of its
NATO allies I think are genuinely
concerned about the threat from Isis and
from terrorism generally which of course
turkey I don't think it's even
controversial any more to say and has
done very little to actually stop the
ISIS threat to Europe in fact it is
fostered it because of its own foreign
policy aims in using Arya is as arguably
the West has at all of its foreign
policy in places such as Syria that is
now having a blowback effect and even
the West media says the term blowback
but when we look at the definition of
blowback it means largely self-inflicted
and so its inherent in duplicity in that
term that actually we've caused this
problem so yes I think Adam might be
sincere when he's now saying because
he's under such intense pressure from
parts of the West to reverse his pro
terrorism policies that now he can just
show every now and then that he's
deported people and actually I've done
my best but but it does raise an
interesting issue about intelligence
matters because you do have as we
entered there earlier this is an
intelligence failure and what we find
after these intelligence failures by the
security services is that these
intelligence failures are then used by
politicians by the intelligence of
ourselves funny you should say that
because it's surely this is now going to
impact the whole EU referendum debate
because this you know four kalsa minds
like a bit further back obviously the
Paris attack a fled to Belgium from
France obviously under the shelling
agreement you could that must really
play a part now into politics well it
exactly it's going to be used by
politicians by the media and by those
who speak for this
security services as so you know experts
on TV and radio sometimes for their own
particular aims and of course everybody
can take something from this for example
we've had in terms of public politics
you've had some for example from you
kept in the UK saying this is an example
of why we should have more immigration
control others to resume the Home
Secretary saying recently that it's an
example of why we need to be in Europe
to spread intelligence more care more
more widely but the fact is that
actually it's a nice easy answer to say
that this is some kind of external
problem this is to do with the ease with
which people get visas or can travel in
almost all of these attacks that have
taken place in Europe the perpetrators
have been Europeans there have been
people who have been born in Britain or
have been in Britain for such a long
time since childhood we think about 77
and 21 7th from those how a terrible
attacks in London and in Paris and
elsewhere they are effectively native
people so these are you this is an
internal issue for Europe as well as a
foreign policy issue because of course
we have to consider how it was that so
many many hundreds of British French
German Belgian subjects were able and
not discouraging it anyway by their
governments to go off to get training
experience as effectively terrorists in
Syria and these are the kind of
questions I'm sure that many Belgians
and French people are asking us to the
wisdom of that policy of effectively
doing nothing until around mid 2013 to
prevent these terrorists going off to
fight against a sad and thereby at that
time of course arguably serving western
foreign policy which leads the question
if the Syria peace talks do get resolved
what's going to happen to those there's
British nationals who've joined this
death cult I mean where are they gonna
go I think we've already seen the signs
of what's happening there and of course
it may be that that's what emerges
happened in Belgium as well we study
notes what happened in Paris where
you've got a situation now where is in
Syria is no longer in the safe haven
that it used to be because of the West
policies in destabilizing places such as
Libya Syria when we say the West we
don't really mean the west of course we
mean Britain France in America these are
the guys who have actually driven this
policy of destabilization you've got
areas now that are
on govern space these have become safe
haven for groups such as al-qaeda our
Nigerian sir or is and as a result of
that it was a bizarre situation of for
example for three years the parts of
Syria that is controlled were the only
parts and al-nusrah control these are
the only place in the world where
actually you could go and be safe from
American drones against another so
actually the West was backing the
creation of these safe havens and
surprise surprise this has served as an
incubator for these groups now that
they're under some limited US attack for
sure but mainly because they're under
such heavy russian attack lifting on and
there of course the ious guys who were
there who were in many ways in coach to
go there by our media as heroes fighting
Assad now of course it's not so much fun
for them anymore they're now coming back
lot Rove's well it's not fun for any of
this and I'm sure it'll be a subject
will be seeing here of course again but
chance thank you so much for joining us
aboard this pudding thank you coming up
next sites you thought you'd never see
the President of the United States of
America standing with the Cuban leader
Raul Castro in Revolution Square with
the image of Che Guevara looking down on
them don't miss it
welcome back to Sputnik among standoff
between the USA and its neighbor Cuba
just 90 miles away move towards its end
this week when President Obama embraced
the leadership of Cuba in Havana it had
the hand of history written all over it
but what will it mean for the US for us
Cuban relations and a very great
importance to many of our viewers what
would it mean for Cuba a long-standing
advocate of friendship with Cuba is Rob
Miller director of the Cuba solidarity
campaign and he joins us in a minute but
first let's hear what the public in
London think about President Obama's
visit I think it's a good thing that
America's opened up relationship
relations with Cuba again but I think it
would have very little effect on Cuba
but we'll probably do you know wonders
for Obama's legacy if there is freedom
of money coming in there is a prosperity
communism has a natural death when Obama
lifted the sanctions he's also brought
over with him and hordes of
multinational international big
businessmen who are really looking at
Cuba to try and turn the heads of the
Cuban people away from creating their
own destiny through that socialist
revolution that they had and perhaps
forging a new way forward and really
trying to integrate them into a
capitalist economy well it seems a lot
of people have an opinion on President
Obama's visit in Cuba but now it's time
to hear from our expert Rob Rob what's
your take on President Obama's visit to
Cuba well it's been a wonderful visit
it's been a great few days I'm sure
President Obama and his family Michelle
and the girls enjoyed the timing of an
arrest millions of people do every year
when they go to Cuba on holiday and I'm
also sure that the Cuban people enjoyed
the visit because for the first time for
a long time you've really seen the
possibilities that could come about
between these two close neighbors and
how that relationship could develop over
time they're very close neighbors they
should be very close friends they say
when you open the door or window the
fly's flying what's gonna happen when
naturalization kicks in with disneyland
of goodness no wats TNCs landing in Cuba
do you think you'll be the same place I
think Cuba will change I think it will
change slowly I don't think it's gonna
be a mad rush to embrace everything
about the United States the Cuban people
are very very strong and very proud of
their nation and their achievements
their achievements are well known
health in education in social care
internationalism and so forth and the
Cuban people are really not in the
business of giving that all up overnight
they're very intelligent people very
well educated and they've seen films of
the United States of course there are
things people admire about the United
States and things that people want but
there's also as we all know an awful lot
of things in the united states that you
could do without and i've got two
children of my own and I know which
country I would prefer them to be
brought up in Cuba's a lovely place to
grow up in he's got a vibrant eclectic
atmosphere culture and it's a country
that I would be very proud to live in
and I know the Cuban people are very
proud of that country probably no that's
actually the Congress there was they
weren't really mad about Obama's trip
the US media they're not mad about it so
why did Obama do it what's in it for him
I think well obviously legacy for
President Obama himself and he wants to
leave a positive legacy in the region
but I think the bigger picture is the
relationship between the United States
and the whole hemisphere the United
States has been losing influence within
South America in particular and
countries such as Brazil Venezuela
Argentina very big economies and
particularly the Chinese have been
investing in the region and I think when
you've had a many years now of a
progressive left leading countries the
issue of Cuba has been a real block on
relations with the United States and a
couple of years ago at the Organization
of American States President Obama
himself was almost excluded by the other
presidents of the region and the reason
was the blockade of Cuba and the ongoing
mistreatment of Cuba so by opening up
that door opening up that relationship
with Cuba the Americans President Obama
and the business community in the United
States is opening up its opportunities
within the hemisphere and that's a very
very important economic mission if you
like and this part of that opening up on
that engagement has been in a very
important element well I think it's a it
is supposed to be it's positively
received all over the world I just
question whether it's the same in the
u.s. itself well I think people in the
united states are very open to
engagement of cuba success it all the
polls indicated the people at the United
States want to see normalize relations
with Cuba the key
factor has been the relationship or the
feelings of the people in Florida that 1
million-plus group of cuban-americans
who have driven forward that aggressive
a u.s. foreign policy towards Cuba the
country they left after the Revolution
of 1956 are changing the younger
generation have grandparents they have
family relations in Cuba and they want
to go backwards and forward they seek
you were in different lights absolutely
and the idea of blockade is no longer
relevant to them they want to go back
with some forwards they want to meet
their families they want to invest they
want to take up opportunities you you
say measure Ozzy blockade but one of the
sanctions really gonna end do you see it
happening soon well we want it to happen
soon but it's been a very very long way
the facts of the matter are the despite
all the talk over the last year of
rapprochement despite the new diplomatic
relations despite Obama's visit and the
four rounds of bilateral talks in two
countries the blockade is very much in
place during Obama's administration
alone 49 international companies have
been fined nearly 20 billion dollars in
total for just trading with Cuba my own
organization the Cuba solidarity
campaign we've had our bank accounts
closed by the co-operative bank who have
closed our bank accounts in London
because of the blockade and the chief
executive of the co-op has said is
because of the u.s. blockade policies
now if you have a small organization
either Cuba solidarity campaign unable
to trade with Cuba imagine what it's
like for British and international
businesses who are unable to trade so
the blockade has to end that has to be
the first thing on the table well that's
the question isn't it because is this
another one of Obama's false promises we
obviously had it one of the first things
he admitted he wanted to close
Guantanamo that didn't happen do you
think this really will be a long-term
strategy that will be implemented
sustainably for the Cuban people I think
we have to take President Obama at face
value and and see that this is something
that he believes in now whether that can
be carried through by Congress obviously
a lot of the elements of the blockade
legislation have to be reversed by
Congress but there are still more things
that the United States could do they
could lift the tourism ban on their own
citizens traveling to Cuba and certainly
the issue offer Gont animo has to be
discussed you can't have
normalized relationship with a country
when the bigger partner is illegally
occupying your land against your wishes
it's the only United States the only
international based military base in the
world that's positioned in a country
that doesn't want it to be there that
has to change we can't talk about
normalize relations until that happens
sure and of course the the real question
is will this actually impact in terms of
trade in the favor of the Cubans because
ultimately you know Obama's delegation
had people representatives in the likes
of PayPal and several huge organizations
that represent the kind of tourism and
holiday and rentals and etc so are we
actually gonna see sustained investment
they will actually benefit Cubans I
think we will see a change and but it
will take time I think international
companies have been warned off of Cuba
for many many years the fines as I've
said have been horrific and massive the
only a couple of moscow british firm
watg holdings was fined two hundred
thousand dollars so it's still going on
Commerce Bank the German bank was fine
over a billion dollars this year so
these fines are still in place and that
is a major factor stopping international
trade cube is a wonderful place to do
business it's a very stable society it's
got a very highly educated workforce and
it's a population of 11 million people
which needs investment there are many
many opportunities for international
business and particularly US business so
it will help the Cubans want investment
is what they need to develop their their
country and they need that development
they want it and they need to see that
progress so it's something we hope will
come come out of this visit and out of
the discussions they're going along at
the moment and there was this a
fantastic picture captured of Raul
Castro holy of obama's hand which was
supposed to be a fist pump but Obama
health is high and loose so apart from
that a little incident I think it looked
quite a successful trip this whole
apartment I just wondered when they
stood there in Revolution Square with
che guevara behind them looking really
literally upon them how do you think he
would have regarded this this this visit
and even Fidel who still life how would
they have seen
well I think the Cuban people were all
Fidel the Cuban people will see it as a
victory I think they've had 50 years of
aggression and now finally the US
president has come to them the Cubans
haven't given up anything it's the
United States that need to change is the
United States unilateral blockade it's
the United States financed aggression
against Cuba so it's the united states
that still has a long way to go cuba
doesn't have to do anything to build a
normalized relationship with the United
States it's a purely a one-way ticket
and we very much see this as a victory
for Cuba but the Cuban people are very
patient they've had a long period of
waiting on patiently and respectfully
they're not asking for anything special
they're purely asking for a normal
relationship with a neighbor based on
mutual respect and understanding well
the Cuban solidarity campaign has no
doubt been a neighbor of the Cuban
people for many many years what does
this mean for you as an organization
obviously with these steps in the right
direction what was what's the future for
you guys Oh as I said there's still a
long way to go with the blockade we've
gone tanomo there was still a number of
issues around the migration issues the
Cuban Adjustment Act the wet foot dry
foot policy which encourages Cubans to
to leave the island there's still United
States intervention within Cuba the
Congress has just recently passed 30
million dollars worth of money to fund
dissent in opposition within Cuba so
directly intervening in in a foreign
nation so there's a long way to go but
at the same time weird an organization
will spend a lot of time now celebrating
many of the achievements of the Cuban
Revolution not only in health and
education but particularly in culture
music dance and so on we're organizing
exhibitions and events around the
country really looking at how Cuba has
achieved something that I think we can
all look to cube is not perfect but
there's many things in Cuba that we can
admire and certainly people across the
South the developing world look to Cuba
as a sustainable model of development
and one which they want to learn from
well I'm certainly sold we'll have to
have you back Rob thanks so much for
joining us on board this morning thank
you very much for having me thank you
and now of course it's time to hear what
you think on the realms of digital and
social media what's buzzing away Gayatri
well Brussels these suicide bombers who
created these monsters actually Amy
Wyatt says the terrorism against Muslims
in the middle east and in the West
racism it's a feeling of not belonging
which is about right definitely see
Aaron says Saudi oil wealth and Western
grid I think look there's a lot of
parties involved in this it's a very
very busy situation but it's it's
annoying that we have to put labels
obviously on nations and people because
no real religion obviously represents
terrorism doesn't absolutely not now
this us rapprochement with Cuba is that
President Obama's legacy we asked keith
fox says obama said isolation has not
worked it's time for a new approach it's
actually the same intent with new
methods and sean karen says clean water
free education and health care for all
the people of Detroit can but dream of
that sochi Viva Cuba exactly and that's
all of you got time for this week and
that's the end of this episode of
Sputnik with me Joseph Italian for
George Galloway emeka a tree you can
stay in touch with us on social media on
Twitter at RT underscore Sputnik on
facebook Sputnik on Russia today until
next week it's be marvelous
you